I want to convert my 440 over to electronic ignition and am trying to decide on which Mopar Performance kit to order from Mancini Racing. They have one that's described as "Hi-Po" and one that's not. The Hi-Po claims "performance advance curve".
Also, should I be replacing the coil at the same time? Currently it has an old-looking stock coil (which seems to work fine). I don't need anything that's brightly colored or attention getting, just something that'll do the job properly.
Right now the engine is stock except for a Street Demon carb. However, down the road I plan on other bolt-on upgrades such as dual exhaust and intake manifold.
Last edited: Dec 15, 2018Chrysler came out with their electronic ignition in 1972 on some models. In '73 it was standard on all lines. Save yourself some money and aggravation. Get a standard Mopar electronic ignition setup. Tried and true. Never mind the b.s.
Seen too many guys go with pertronix etc. And have nothing but trouble.
Last time I looked, Mopar Perf still had the electronic ignition kit in their catalog, but others in her claim it's been discontinued. past that . . .
The MP kit had a distributor with "a performance ignition curve" in it. It brought in full advance at about 3000rpm, rather than the stock distributor's 4400rpm+ engine speed. To me, other than a NEW distributor, the kit had the necessary wiring harness for the kit, which to me, is a big help. If you might need to lengthen some things, you can splice into it and make factory-looking connections, which makes for a neater installation.
The coil in the MP kit is probably an OEM item of stock capacity. I suspect that all of the current OEM-style coils are probably the electronic ones? As long as the sparks happen, that's all that matters, to me. A coil rated at 50KV will only produce that much IF it's necessary to fire the plugs. Otherwise, it will produce 10KV at cruise and offer no real benefits, other than cosmetic.
Just some thoughts,
CBODY67
I have heard good and bad with all systems including points. With the Mopar electronic Ignition many said keep a spare in the glove box cause they can burn out. It was pointed out they are made somewhere in Asia now and quality can be hit or miss. Don't know the Mancini unit. Pertronics some swear by. I have heard overall the Ignitor 1 or their base model is the most reliable ,fits under the dizzy cap and you can't see it. Even their coil is black and you can jump the ballast resistor with a wire and keep the stock look completely. As for me I run points in my 440 and it runs great. I put in a reman points distributor because the lobes on the old one were worn. I change the points once or twice a year and get out the dwell meter and set her up which I enjoy. I keep an extra set of points,Ballast resistor and an old coil in my trunk. I am going to run the vintage new in box points sets I bought from Halifaxhops here on the forum.
Which year 440 engine are you planning to convert? Keep in mind that you should not run electronic ignition with a mechanical voltage regulator, electronics will usually fail because they do not like static. If you have an older 440 with the mechanical regulator and early style alternator, both of those units should be replaced as part of the conversion. You are running a basic stock motor and you will not get a whole lot of benefit from the high performance type electronic ignition so it really is not necessary unless you plan to add a performance cam at a later date. I am a big believer in the stock Mopar electronic ignition because it is pretty much bullet proof. As mentioned above, it is often more practical to just run points. A bad point set is easy to replace, a shorted ECM or pickup module, not so easy on the side of the road some place. My 2 cents.
When I first heard of Pertronix, on another forum, all they had was (what is now) Ignitor. The other ones came later and have other features, like multi-strike spark capability. The people on that other board highly recommended the Ignitor (now the Ignitor 1 base unit) over points.
The main issue with points, well there are TWO in more recent times, is the cam lobe wear mentioned above. Lobe wear which can be influenced by many newer point sets NOT having the prior little vial of breaker point lube in them. No lube on the rubbing block on the points and the points don't keep adjustment like they used to and the distributor cam lobes the rubbing block rides on can also wear quicker. Going electronic gets rid of those issues.
BUT . . . every electronic control box needs a certain level of battery voltage to work and fire the plugs. With points, all it takes is a spark between the points to send a spark to a spark plug that can fire things off. In some cases, that can mean the difference in getting rolling with a weak battery or calling a tow truck, by observation.
With the lack of distributor points spring tension acting on the distributor cam, plus the balance rotor, the bushings in a Chrysler electronic distributor should last forever, as all it does is "spin". Add the lack of maintenance and it can be a pretty nice total deal!
Of course, with a B/RB engine, pulling the distributor in and out is no big deal. Easier than leaning across a fender to change points on a Chevy, as with the Chrysler unit, it can be done on a work bench instead. Just remember to set the dwell before you set the basic timing.
Plusses and minuses with everything . . . just depends which ones you want to deal with.
Last edited: Dec 15, 2018Joined Sep 12, 2018 Messages 594 Reaction score 604 Location Northeast PA, 10 minutes from Knoebels Grove
I want to get rid of the points so we don't have to worry about replacing, adjusting, etc. I'm sure we're going to have plenty to upkeep on this oldie so any spots we can make more reliable I want to do so. I'm not worried about keeping a stock look.
I actually put a MP electronic ignition conversion on my 68 New Yorker back around 1990 then never drove it. I mean, I started it and drove it around a little so I know it ran, but for all intents and purposes, it has no miles on it. So I *could* swap that over to the 300, but I don't want to start disassembling the NYer since it ran when I parked it all those years ago.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the first kit would be like upgrading to the factory stock electronic ignition and the second option would be like upgrading to the original MP kit?
Or is the first kit like the old MP kit and the second is even more aggressive?
Neither kit seems to come with a coil.
I have already installed FuryGT's electronic voltage regulator. I searched and read some posts regarding alternators and I'm pretty sure mine is still the original style. What happens if I install the electronic ignition but don't upgrade the alternator?
When I first heard of Pertronix, on another forum, all they had was (what is now) Ignitor. The other ones came later and have other features, like multi-strike spark capability. The people on that other board highly recommended the Ignitor (now the Ignitor 1 base unit) over points.
The main issue with points, well there are TWO in more recent times, is the cam lobe wear mentioned above. Lobe wear which can be influenced by many newer point sets NOT having the prior little vial of breaker point lube in them. No lube on the rubbing block on the points and the points don't keep adjustment like they used to and the distributor cam lobes the rubbing block rides on can also wear quicker. Going electronic gets rid of those issues.
BUT . . . every electronic control box needs a certain level of battery voltage to work and fire the plugs. With points, all it takes is a spark between the points to send a spark to a spark plug that can fire things off. In some cases, that can mean the difference in getting rolling with a weak battery or calling a tow truck, by observation.
With the lack of distributor points spring tension acting on the distributor cam, plus the balance rotor, the bushings in a Chrysler electronic distributor should last forever, as all it does is "spin". Add the lack of maintenance and it can be a pretty nice total deal!
Of course, with a B/RB engine, pulling the distributor in and out is no big deal. Easier than leaning across a fender to change points on a Chevy, as with the Chrysler unit, it can be done on a work bench instead. Just remember to set the dwell before you set the basic timing.
Plusses and minuses with everything . . . just depends which ones you want to deal with.
Believe it or not, Standard Motor Products still makes the distributor cam lubricant, Product is called SL-2 (Lubricam), and it is available on Amazon for about $10 per 4oz tube. That is enough to last as long as any of us.
Last edited: Dec 15, 2018I want to get rid of the points so we don't have to worry about replacing, adjusting, etc. I'm sure we're going to have plenty to upkeep on this oldie so any spots we can make more reliable I want to do so. I'm not worried about keeping a stock look.
I actually put a MP electronic ignition conversion on my 68 New Yorker back around 1990 then never drove it. I mean, I started it and drove it around a little so I know it ran, but for all intents and purposes, it has no miles on it. So I *could* swap that over to the 300, but I don't want to start disassembling the NYer since it ran when I parked it all those years ago.
Unless I'm misunderstanding, the first kit would be like upgrading to the factory stock electronic ignition and the second option would be like upgrading to the original MP kit?
Or is the first kit like the old MP kit and the second is even more aggressive?
Neither kit seems to come with a coil.
I have already installed FuryGT's electronic voltage regulator. I searched and read some posts regarding alternators and I'm pretty sure mine is still the original style. What happens if I install the electronic ignition but don't upgrade the alternator?
The factory coil is fine with the electronic conversion as long as it is working properly. The later style alternators were designed to work with electronic ignition. They have better insulation on the field windings so as to produce less static. Your electronic conversion will no doubt run with the older alternator, but its life expectancy will probably be shorter. Check the technical specs for what ever conversion you decide on to see if a "low static" or static suppressed alternator is required. Mancini tech support should have this information. If you call them, they are usually very helpful and can tell you what electronics will be best for your vehicle.
As an alternative, buy a rebuilt distributor, a MOPAR Performance wiring harness, a good quality ECU/Module (I sell a very good Marine rated ECU for $20 + shipping but I am currently out of stock), an ACCELL cap & rotor and a heavy duty ballast resistor and save yourself some money. If you car is a '69 or older you will also need a solid state voltage regulator (which I also sell and am currently out of stock of and will have more soon).
I just spent a good while looking at electronic ignition "stuff". ACCEL used to have a mag-trigger/Chrysler-style distributor, tan cap and all, but since Holley now owns that name, very little of the earlier stuff is still around, much less for Mopars. Unless you want one of their MSD items.
They do still have a version of the old Mallory UniLIte system in a conversion kit, though!
Seems that most of the point distributor electronic ignition conversion kits are repackaged Pertronix Ignitors, from looking at the pictures of them in RockAuto and such. The Pertronix catalog, which I finally downloaded for easier reading, has a graph of their Ignitor system and it's spark energy vs. a points system. Much more juice in the lower rpm ranges, but matches the points system from about 5000rpm+. Rather than the Chrysler "paddle wheel" reluctor, seems they have that stuff built into the bottom of a funky-looking distributor rotor?
I did find that A-1 Cardone has NEW point distributors for B/RB motors. Price in RockAuto was less than the reman point distributors from other companies. But those items are a "broad-fit" item, which have OEM part numbers they replace from 1960-1971, which also means a "generic" advance curve rather than an application-specific curve per swalloe.
This also means there has to be a supply of adjustable vac advance canisters around, somewhere, to feed the building of these distributors, too.
End result was that I didn't like what I found in Holley/ACCEL/Mallory or in Pertronix, either one. I might be inclined to use a A-1 Cardone item (even if it came repackaged in a NAPA box) and then set the total advance and hope the resulting initial advance was about 10 degrees BTDC or so. So much of what we used to have is now gone or combined with other product lines to "vanish". Standard Motor Parts has some ignition parts, too, just as their have lots of other car parts, too. So that might be an option, but possibly the same options as others might have.
A while back, I looked at the Mancini electronic ignition items. One of their kits seemed to mimic the Mopar Perf kit, which was good. The other one seemed to be more generic in nature. Pricing was good, too. At least they have a heritage in Mopar Performance items, so they ought to know what's what in that area, I hope!
I know there have been some comments about where various car parts are made these days. Unfortunately, not everything is made "here" any more, but "some where else". It's been said that certain origin-countries' items are inferior or have a higher failure rate than others done domestically. I can see that, BUT then I was in the Carter fuel pump catalog the other day. Seems the Carter manual pumps come from S Korea and the EFI modules come from China. And Carter is a very respected name in fuel system products. So my point is that all of these parts, where ever they come from, should all be built to a particular set of blueprints and criteria, no matter where they are built. Same as to failure rates and related quality control issues (a KEY point to consider!). They all have the same warranty coverage, no matter point of origin, too.
In the case of a suspected pre-mature failure, it's not that the one brand of part failed allegedly too soon, but how the seller handled the warranty issues related to the situation. If the counter people were accommodating, then the customer will probably return for other parts later on. If not, "customers have options they can exercise to their desires", regarding future purchases.
So, by observation, it's not specifically where the part is built, but what the CONTRACTOR wants to pay for or not pay for, in the way of material quality and projected failure rates. As for build quality, that can always be a little variable, but as one engineer allegedly stated one time (paraphrased), "IF we did our design correctly, if we threw the parts off of a 3rd floor balcony, by the time the parts hit the ground, they would have correctly assembled themselves." Be that as it may!
ONE thing I always liked about the Mopar Perf electronic ignition conversion kits was that they were all built to OEM production specs. Distributor, wiring harness, control boxes, etc. Which meant they were very good and durable. Perhaps that has been altered a bit in later years?
Just as it was 50+ years ago, the people in the auto repair trade usually know where to get the better parts. Whether from a dealership, a large auto supply, or variations thereof. Nothing's changed in that respect, by observation. Sometimes, it depends upon what the customer can afford to pay for! In getting the repair done or what parts are used in doing it.